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  1. #21
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    Predefinito Rif: Elezioni in Ungheria: vince il centrodestra conservatore, avanza la destra radic

    Citazione Originariamente Scritto da Giò91 Visualizza Messaggio
    Minchia, mai vista tanta malafede
    La dice lunga sull'affidabilità di wikipedia su certe cose.
    Wikipedia è una merda,è inaffidabile in tutto(perlomeno politicamente e storicamente),può andare bene
    per informarsi sulle prese scart,sui BSD,sul tcp e su
    argomenti che non tocchino la politica.
    Un esempio

    Negazionismo - Wikipedia

    "Un altro esempio è quello dell'ex professore di critica letteraria all'Università di Lione Robert Faurisson, che si è prodigato per consolidare una delle colonne portanti della negazione dell'Olocausto: le camere a gas non sarebbero mai esistite, e se c'erano non avevano la funzione di sterminare le persone, ma solo quella di uccidere i pidocchi."

    Notare lo stile grezzo,bambinesco che possiamo ritrovare anche nei siti della sionistra radicula.

    Negazionismo dell'Olocausto - Wikipedia

    "el tempo, partendo da un'attività prettamente analitico-speculativa l'Institute for Historical Review ha cercato di coltivare le proprie relazioni con i rappresentanti degli stati apertamente o velatamente negazionisti, primo fra i quali l'Iran."

    Questo pezzo dimostra bene quale corrente "domini" wikipedia,faccio presente che l'Iran non è negazionista ma semplicemente concede(orrore!) libertà di espressione e di ricerca a chi porta avanti teorie alternative sull'olocausto.

  2. #22
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    Predefinito Rif: Elezioni in Ungheria: vince il centrodestra conservatore, avanza la destra radic

    Citazione Originariamente Scritto da Canaglia Visualizza Messaggio
    I nostrani “blindati” informatori non hanno destinato soverchia attenzione ai risultati delle recenti elezioni in Ungheria. Chiediamo naturalmente venia agli italiani per la distrazione dei colleghi giornalisti.
    Nella vera prima votazione magiara - le trascorse avevano dato vita a strane coalizioni di partiti neo-democratici e post-comunisti - non soltanto il partito di centrodestra Fidsez ha ottenuto il 52,7 per cento dei suffragi (e 206 seggi su 386), ma un altro 16,7 % (e 26 seggi) è stato acquisito dai “nazionalisti radicali” dello Jobbik.
    Di contro il partito socialista post-comunista ha ottenuto il 19,3% cento dei voti (28 seggi) e i liberali il 7,5% e 5 seggi. E gli altri 121 seggi verranno distribuiti quota-parte con il doppio turno del 25 aprile.
    Queste le cifre di un rovesciamento degli equilibri politici ungheresi che definire la “fine di un’epoca” è limitativo.
    Vincitore assoluto con i due terzi dei voti e prossimo primo ministro è Viktor Orban, un quarantesettenne già premier “liberale” sconfitto dai socialisti. Orban - sostenuto dalla Fondazione Soros - è una sorta di Berlusco-Fini alla magiara: atlantico, liberista, reaganiano in materia di tasse e investimenti. Soprattutto ostile non tanto ai socialisti post-comunisti, quanto alle “camicie bianche” nazionaliste di Vona, diventate il terzo “pericoloso” (sic) partito di Ungheria. Un partito guidato da un insegnante trentaduenne, Gábor Vona, già fondatore della Magyar Gárda (la Guardia Ungherese) disciolta a fine 2008 perché “contraria ai diritti umani delle minoranze” etniche magiare. La Magyar Gárda - e ora lo Jobbik, il partito per un’Ungheria Migliore - dichiara che “il destino dell’Ungheria deve essere restituito agli Ungheresi” e non nasconde la sua volontà di limitare quello che definisce il “buonismo” rispetto alla “supergarantita” comunità rom.
    E’ nel 2006 che a Budapest il vento era cambiato. Senza vergogna, il premier “socialista” Ferenc Gyurcsany aveva riferito allora di “aver mentito alla nazione” e che il suo governo “non aveva fatto nulla per i suoi cittadini”: anzi li aveva costretti ai tagli sociali imposti dall’Ue. Queste parole, diventate pubbliche, avevano innescato una sollevazione popolare nazionalista proprio nei giorni del 50mo anniversario della rivolta del 1956 stroncata dai carri armati sovietici. Per di più nel 2008 l’Ungheria era stata vittima mirata della crisi finanziaria internazionale e di una forte svalutazione del fiorino rispetto all’euro (26%).
    L’appoggio dell’Ue e del Fmi a Viktor Orban (che ha già anticipato la sua volontà di rinegoziare il debito pubblico con gli strozzini internazionali, alle loro condizioni), ha costruito la vittoria. Fino ad oggi.
    Ora Orban vorrebbe completare il mandato: bloccare l’avanzata dei nazionalisti “autentici”, magari cercando di rendere illegale il movimento dell’avversario Vona e sbandierando, come aveva fatto in Italia inizialmente un Fini, un po’ di demagogia xenofoba verso le minoranze immigrate (romena, serba, ucraina, slovacca e rom).
    (Ah: forse questa è la “svolta ungherese” di cui ha cautamente trattato - solo - il Manifesto, qui nell’Itali(ett)a...)

    Rinascita.eu - Quotidiano di Sinistra Nazionale

    Interessante, il centrodestra ungherese è di matrice sorosiana....
    Mi sembra esagerato l'articolo di Rinascita.
    Da quanto ne so, recentemente Orban ha avuto contatti diretti con Putin e in politica ha una linea filo-russa.
    In politica economia ha posizioni simili a quelle del centrodestra tremontiano.
    Poi magari sbaglio eh...
    Ultima modifica di Giò; 16-04-10 alle 17:01

  3. #23
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    Predefinito Rif: Elezioni in Ungheria: vince il centrodestra conservatore, avanza la destra radic

    Negotiations between Putin and the Hungarian opposition leader?
    Recently I noticed a short news item: "Orbán conferred with Vladimir Putin." Hmm? That was surprising. From the article I found out that Viktor Orbán, in his capacity as one of the vice-presidents of the European People's Party, was a guest at the eleventh national congress of the ruling United Russia Party and that while in St. Petersburg he took the opportunity to talk with Putin. Péter Szijártó, the Fidesz spokesman, was tight-mouthed. The only thing he divulged was that Orbán and Putin had talked about the future of Russian-Hungarian relations. His boss was more expansive when he gave an interview to HírTV (where else?). According to Orbán he indicated to Putin that he wants "to put Russian-Hungarian relations on an entirely new footing." He apparently made some less than complimentary remarks about "the shady socialist characters" who are now in charge of Hungary's foreign policy toward Russia. An Orbán government will "create a true partnership between the two countries" that is appropriate for the diplomacy of the twenty-first century.

    This is an unexpected development because Orbán's relations with Russia were singularly bad during his tenure as prime minister between 1998 and 2002. Since then Orbán has been consistently critical of "close" relations with Russia. He and his party severely criticized Hungary's willingness to adhere to the arrangement that would supply natural gas from Russia to Hungary through the Southern Stream. I wrote about the topic twice: first on February 29, 2008 ("All those streams of natural gas") and again on July 29, 2008 ("U.S.-Hungarian relations"). Moreover, Orbán was very explicit about his foreign policy plans vis-à-vis Russia in his May 2008 leaked conversation with young political scientists when he talked about foreign investments in Hungary. According to him there are three possible sources of foreign capital: from Russia, from the Arab world, and from China. But he added: "political relations are another matter." He would keep those on a low level. In March 2007 he gave a speech at a conference in which he went into great detail about the conflicting mentalities of the Russians and the "Europeans" as far as energy policy is concerned. The Russians are using natural gas and oil as a political weapon, said Orbán. The Russian ambassador who was present actually got into a verbal duel with the leader of the opposition, finishing his interjection with "Do we understand each other?" (The former Russian ambassador's Hungarian is impeccable.) In August 2008 Orbán wrote letters to the leaders of Georgia, Ukraine, and Poland in which he condemned Russian military aggression. He drew a parallel between the Russian attack on Georgia and the Soviet behavior in 1956 in Hungary. Needless to say, the Russian ambassador disagreed.

    Well, these most recent so-called negotiations are probably, as usual, the figment of Orbán's imagination. From what I have been reading in the last two days it seems that the Hungarian opposition leader managed to exchange a few words with Putin, perhaps in the receiving line. But the initial announcement by Magyar Nemzet (November 20) indicated a much grander occasion. From "Russian" sources the paper seemed to know that the Orbán-Putin meeting would take place in Putin's dacha. (Perhaps some of you remember that Viktor Orbán was supposed to have a meeting with George H. Bush in Kennebunkport but somehow he didn't quite make the plane connection!)

    The headline of the article was "Moscow is not afraid: Orbán is planning to visit Putin." I guess "Moscow is not afraid" means that it is not afraid of the arrival of an Orbán government. In the body of the article interesting "details" could be read. We found out that President Dmitry Medvedev would also be present and therefore it was possible that there might be a negotiating session between Medvedev and Orbán. The "invitation" (I guess by the Russians to Orbán) means that Moscow is conducting a pragmatic foreign policy. Russia is counting on a Fidesz victory.

    That indeed sounded fabulous, but it was telling that Fidesz's press department refused to confirm the information received by Magyar Nemzet from "Russia". Thus, soon enough Magyar Nemzet turned down the volume considerably. On November 21, that is the day after the initial announcement, it reported only that "at the conference Viktor Orbán as vice-president of the European People's Party was present." However, after the HírTV interview Magyar Nemzet talked about "private talks" between Putin and Orbán. Two days later on November 23 the paper quoted Orbán, saying that he "went there to put Russian-Hungarian relations in order."

    At this point the liberal media moved into high gear and its journalists began to snoop around to find out what really happened in St. Petersburg. The first Doubting Thomas was Tibor Várkonyi who penned an opinion piece, most likely sometime on Sunday, published in Monday's Népszava. He found it strange that after important "private conversations" it was once again only Viktor Orbán who gave an interview. He recalled that the same thing happened after Orbán's meetings with Angela Merkel and Nicholas Sarkozy. Yesterday the journalists continued their pursuit, and it turned out that the spokesman of Russian president's office confirmed only a "spontaneous meeting" between the two men. They checked the website of the European People's Party to see whether it made any mention of this private meeting but they found nothing. They checked the websites of all important Russian papers and Ria novosti, a news service usually very detailed and reliable, but again they found nothing.

    So the only thing we seem to know is that it was a "spontaneous meeting" and that they "were talking about the future of Russian-Hungarian relations." When journalists asked Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, he informed them that Russian-Hungarian relations are good but can always be improved. When he was asked about Orbán's opposition to Hungary's joining the Southern Stream, Peskov's answer was "dialogue is always important." These are fairly meaningless comments. It seems that Orbán again is trying to make hay out of nothing or very little. The question is why.

    Hungarian Spectrum: Negotiations between Putin and the Hungarian opposition leader?

  4. #24
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    Predefinito Rif: Elezioni in Ungheria: vince il centrodestra conservatore, avanza la destra radic

    Past and future Hungarian prime ministers in Russia?
    Yesterday after I received numerous comments on my post on Orbán's alleged "negotiations" with Putin, I was inclined to agree with some of you that perhaps I wasn't concentrating on the really important issue. Possibly it isn't important whether the meeting between Putin and Orbán actually took place or how long it lasted if it did occur. The real issue is Viktor Orbán's attitude toward Vladimir Putin's Russia. I had to agree with the comment that " Putin's authoritarian 'democracy' where one really has a strong man leader with the veneer of democracy on the surface, is a political philosophy likely to be near and dear to Orbán's heart. This seems like a relationship made in heaven." Perhaps I concentrated on a minor issue: on Orbán's truthfulness instead of the kind of regime Orbán dreams of, which bears a suspicious resemblance to that of Putin. Or that of Miklós Horthy for that matter.

    Although I still think that the above quoted comment makes a very valid point and perhaps we ought to discuss it sometime, yesterday's events strengthen my belief that after all it wasn't a waste of time to probe into the circumstances of this "mystery meeting" as Hírszerző called it. A bombshell hit the Hungarian media yesterday. Two days ago a picture appeared on the Russian prime minister's official website showing Putin and Gyurcsány accompanied by their wives having dinner in a Ukrainian restaurant in Moscow the day before. While Hungarian journalists were searching in vain for some documentation of the Putin-Orbán meeting, here is proof that a few days later Vladimir Putin and his wife spent two hours together with Gyurcsány and his wife. This had to be a blow to the Hungarian opposition party and its chairman especially since rumors were circulating, most likely not independently from Fidesz rumor mongering, that Russia is getting ready for an Orbán government and is preparing to sever or at least loosen ties with the socialists. Viktor Orbán himself alluded to a certain ideological affinity between his and Putin's party when he gave an interview on MTV's new early morning program "Ma Reggel" yesterday. Orbán emphasized that although Putin's party "doesn't copy anybody but builds its own culture . . . basically [United Russia] is a conservative party." During the forty years of the Kádár regime "Russian-Hungarian relations were in the hands of the communists and therefore they know the Russians better in addition to having more personal contacts" in Moscow. However, "that is what [he] tried to end, in [his] opinion successfully," during his negotiations with Putin.

    If Orbán indeed succeeded and managed to turn the conservative Putin away from his old socialist friends, it is mighty strange that a few days later the Putin and Gyurcsány families were having a jolly good time over dinner in a Moscow restaurant.

    As soon as the news about the Putin-Gyurcsány get together hit Budapest, members of the media got in touch with Ferenc Gyurcsány. He explained to them that the original dinner engagement was originally scheduled for September but because of Gyurcsány's sport injury the meeting had to be postponed. To the inquiry about the possible "new foundations" of Russian-Hungarian relations that Viktor Orbán tried to establish in St. Petersburg, Gyurcsány gave this answer: "On the basis of what I learned about Viktor Orbán's meeting in St. Peterburg, I think it is better for Viktor Orbán if I don't say anything. I consider this the most elegant answer." He added that he was convinced that in the next five months there will be a high-level meeting between the two countries in Moscow.

    Yesterday's interview with Orbán on "Ma Reggel" was quite long and János Betlen asked him about all sorts of issues, including the by now infamous visit to St. Petersburg. First, Orbán insisted that he received the invitation not as one of the vice-chairmen of the European People's Party but as "chairman of Fidesz." Betlen seemed to be surprised but Orbán insisted. When asked about the duration of the meeting Orbán first answered rather vaguely: "It was long and thorough." Betlen wasn't satisfied and asked: "More than half an hour?" Answer: "More, yes. More than that, of course." Question: "More than an hour?" Answer: "Well, perhaps not that long ... but it is not like a soccer match and one doesn't clock the time...." He then recalled that he had five or six points about which he definitely wanted to mention and he managed to cover them all.

    A few days ago Orbán came out with an extravagant promise: he and his government will create an "energy independent Hungary" in twenty years. According to all experts this is no more than a pipe dream. What Betlen wanted to know was how Putin reacted to this plan. After all, it would not be to Russia's advantage if Hungary no longer needed to import natural gas or oil. Great was Betlen's surprise when he heard from Orbán that Putin was outright elated learning about this Fidesz plan. In fact, he told Orbán that Russia "will help" Hungary to achieve this goal. "Really?" asked Betlen. The answer was rather muddled but it seems that since Hungary's nuclear power plant at Paks was built with Soviet help and technology and because the Hungarian government is planning to double Paks's capacity in the near future Russia will have a part to play in the construction. Thus, in this way Russia will assist Hungary to become an "energy independent" country. Should I continue? I don't think it is necessary. Everybody should get the idea.

    An internet newspaper STOP learned from a diplomat who was also present at the conference of United Russia that in his opinion there was no way Orbán could possibly have had a private interview with Putin. Apparently there was a huge reception for delegates and guests, and Putin stopped here and there and exchanged a few words with the participants. Thus most likely also with Orbán.

    I find it hard to believe that Putin could possibly have had more than half an hour to spend with the leader of a small country's opposition party on a day filled with official obligations. He was one of the speakers at the congress that lasted at least four or five hours. Then there was the reception for 2,000 at which he had to play host. I'm afraid Viktor Orbán is not telling the truth. And that is a very serious problem. This is not some lily-white lie but rather, I believe, the sign of a serious character fault. Can one trust a man who sees the world through a very distorted lens? I don't think so.


    Hungarian Spectrum: Past and future Hungarian prime ministers in Russia?

  5. #25
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    Predefinito Rif: Elezioni in Ungheria: vince il centrodestra conservatore, avanza la destra radic

    Russian Ambassador says relations with Hungary perhaps best in CEE
    By MTI
    Last month's meeting between Viktor Orban, leader of Hungary's main opposition Fidesz party, and Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin was a "constructive and interesting" discussion, Russian Ambassador to Hungary Aleksandr Tolkats said in an interview published in the online issue of the daily Nepszabadsag on Sunday.

    Tolkats said that contrary to allegations in the Hungarian press, the thirty-minute meeting had been held in an official setting, rather than "on the corridor".

    Concerning relations between Hungary and Russia, the ambassador said that they were very good and constructive; "perhaps the best among all countries in the central and eastern European region".

    After a Fidesz announcement on November 21 that Orban had met Putin in St. Petersburg, the spokesman of the ruling Socialist Party voiced doubts over the meeting.

    "It seems certain that Orban did not meet Putin in official circumstances. There is no video footage, photos or other evidence from Russian or diplomatic sources," Istvan Nyako said at the time.

    Politics.Hu: Russian Ambassador says relations with Hungary perhaps best in CEE

  6. #26
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    Predefinito Rif: Elezioni in Ungheria: vince il centrodestra conservatore, avanza la destra radic

    Jobbik è anche filo-turco.

  7. #27
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    Predefinito Rif: Elezioni in Ungheria: vince il centrodestra conservatore, avanza la destra radic

    Citazione Originariamente Scritto da Colonna Visualizza Messaggio
    Jobbik è anche filo-turco.
    Sì, ma sono contrari all'ingresso turco nell'U.E.

  8. #28
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    Predefinito Rif: Elezioni in Ungheria: vince il centrodestra conservatore, avanza la destra radic

    Citazione Originariamente Scritto da Giò91 Visualizza Messaggio
    Sì, ma sono contrari all'ingresso turco nell'U.E.
    Jobbik presented ideas for a foreign policy that would orientate Hungary towards the East, the party's ministerial candidate for foreign policy and trade affairs told reporters on Friday, March 5th at a Budapest press conference.

    Márton Gyöngyösi said “foreign policy is successful, if it is based not on opportunism and passing momentary tactics but on the pursuit of national interests and brotherly ties”. He added that given Hungary's geostrategical place in Europe, its foreign policy should open towards such countries as China, Russia, Kazakhstan and Turkey. He also stressed the importance of relations with the Arab world.

    Hungary's diplomacy should shed its Euro-Atlantic dominance and focus on “national interests”, before the interests of NATO or the EU, the candidate said.
    Jobbik also envisages a new Balkans policy and the radical rethinking of Hungary’s positions in the Central- and Eastern European area. An important aim of the Jobbik ministry would be to further the business opportunities of Hungarian small- and medium sized companies in the region.

    Due to the unjust legacy of the Trianon peace treaty the borders of the country and the nation do not coincide, which prompts Jobbik to handle the case of ethnic Hungarians beyond the borders as internal and not foreign affairs. Therefore the Jobbik government will dedicate a new ministry for the affairs of Hungarians beyond the border, Gyöngyösi said.

    Jobbik - The Movement for a Better Hungary - Jobbik Urges "Eastern" Turn in Foreign Policy

  9. #29
    Hic Sunt Leones
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    Predefinito Rif: Elezioni in Ungheria: vince il centrodestra conservatore, avanza la destra radic

    Citazione Originariamente Scritto da Giò91 Visualizza Messaggio
    Mi sembra esagerato l'articolo di Rinascita.
    Da quanto ne so, recentemente Orban ha avuto contatti diretti con Putin e in politica ha una linea filo-russa.
    In politica economia ha posizioni simili a quelle del centrodestra tremontiano.
    Poi magari sbaglio eh...
    La cosa ha incuriosito pure me.
    Spulciando su internet, risulta in effetti che Orban è cresciuto politicamente all'interno della Fondazione Soros. Risulta anche che uno degli uomini forti di Fidesz, tale Istvan Stumpf (...) sia tuttora uno stretto collaboratore del "filantropo"
    Passata la buriana facciamo i conti

  10. #30
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    Predefinito Rif: Elezioni in Ungheria: vince il centrodestra conservatore, avanza la destra radic

    Citazione Originariamente Scritto da Colonna Visualizza Messaggio
    Jobbik presented ideas for a foreign policy that would orientate Hungary towards the East, the party's ministerial candidate for foreign policy and trade affairs told reporters on Friday, March 5th at a Budapest press conference.

    Márton Gyöngyösi said “foreign policy is successful, if it is based not on opportunism and passing momentary tactics but on the pursuit of national interests and brotherly ties”. He added that given Hungary's geostrategical place in Europe, its foreign policy should open towards such countries as China, Russia, Kazakhstan and Turkey. He also stressed the importance of relations with the Arab world.

    Hungary's diplomacy should shed its Euro-Atlantic dominance and focus on “national interests”, before the interests of NATO or the EU, the candidate said.
    Jobbik also envisages a new Balkans policy and the radical rethinking of Hungary’s positions in the Central- and Eastern European area. An important aim of the Jobbik ministry would be to further the business opportunities of Hungarian small- and medium sized companies in the region.

    Due to the unjust legacy of the Trianon peace treaty the borders of the country and the nation do not coincide, which prompts Jobbik to handle the case of ethnic Hungarians beyond the borders as internal and not foreign affairs. Therefore the Jobbik government will dedicate a new ministry for the affairs of Hungarians beyond the border, Gyöngyösi said.

    Jobbik - The Movement for a Better Hungary - Jobbik Urges "Eastern" Turn in Foreign Policy
    Esatto. Ma non sono favorevoli all'ingresso turco in U.E.
    Infatti nel comunicato non ne fa cenno.

 

 
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